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Thread: Raw Files

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  1. #1
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    Default Raw Files

    Would you hand over the RAW files after a 'cheap' wedding shoot. A friend was asked to do a wedding and then hand over the RAW files.... The person doesn't want JPGs.

    And who would spend up to 8 hrs for $500 doing Wedding....
    ďIf you find yourself saying Iíll fix it in Photoshop, stop and slap yourself in the face, because youíre being lazyĒ


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  2. #2

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    Sucker...

    No I wouldnt. A person can ask, a person doesnt get.

    Tho the photog needs to sort things out and make sure they are not 'commisioned'
    Canon 5DmkII, 400L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 24mmf3.5 TS-E, Canon 70-200f2.8L, Tamron 90mm SP AF Di f2.8 Macro, Sigma 50mmf1.4 EX HSM, Nissin Di866 flash, Manfrotto 190xprob & Markins Q3t head, Lee filters, Lowepro Flipside 400AW, Yong Nuo rf 602 triggers.


  3. #3
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    I don't shoot weddings, but NO

    If you only spend an hour or two shooting and did no other work (processing) then it might be a good gig. You run the risk of them processing them to death and someone seeing them as your "work".

    The photographer from my wedding recently retired and he gave us our wedding negatives (it was a while ago...). I thought it was a nice gesture. I haven't had any more prints made mind you, so he didn't miss out on any mark up!
    Canon > 5DIII | 17-40 L | 35 L | 24-105 L | 70-200 f/2.8 IS II L | 100 L | 400 f/2.8 IS II L | 600 EX-RT | 1.4x TC III | 2x TC III

  4. #4
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    Default

    Here's a controversial opposing view:

    If they are a graphic artist or photographer you trust to do a good job, then why not sell RAW files? The processing part is the bit I hate most....would rather get paid less and not have to do it...hahaha

    But yeah it would suck if you saw someone hash up your photos... anyhow you could always choose the best shots from the day, process them your own way and pop them on your website if you wanted. (True story - I have given RAW files to a graphics designer before...then after she went home I jumped on her computer and reprocessed the images MY WAY....hehehe, I was being a bit pendantic though...she did a sweet job actually)

  5. #5

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    Well I guess they can stuff up jpgs as much as raw's!

    But remember under all circumstances 9apart from commisioned work) the image rights are yours as the tog, OK it takes time to process them even with modern tools, but you should be billing that time, $500 for a wedding is an utter joke.
    Canon 5DmkII, 400L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 24mmf3.5 TS-E, Canon 70-200f2.8L, Tamron 90mm SP AF Di f2.8 Macro, Sigma 50mmf1.4 EX HSM, Nissin Di866 flash, Manfrotto 190xprob & Markins Q3t head, Lee filters, Lowepro Flipside 400AW, Yong Nuo rf 602 triggers.


  6. #6

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    "And who would spend up to 8 hrs for $500 doing Wedding...."
    Ha ha, someone who needs $500 more than 8 hours, does your friend?

    I dont think this is a "would you give then your raw files" question, I think it is just a "how much would it cost for your files" question. Everyone would do it if enough money was offered. The only one who can answer is that person from their circumstances, ie do they need the money more than they care about their brand/style.

    Under some circumstance I wouldnt, but under others I do, it depends. Zack Arias's last creative live workshop had a section on priceing and it addressed that old issue of shoot and burn, or the $25 photographer as he called it and being judgmental on them from a position of different circumstances (like established photographer). It might be worth the money to get hold of it if they are asking these sort of question.

    If someone is choosing between keeping their raws or feeding their family, well you figure it out. Annie Leibovitz probablywouldnt give me them if we had her do our wedding ... just a guess, but thats because she is coming from a different situation, so its a different answer.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Well put Tony. Yes we give out the digital files, the price is $ -----

  8. #8

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    I was thinking about this a little bit and I realised it is a very interesting question, at least to me right now (I am tinkering with doing a bit more paid work as a hobby business) Here is my current thinking, I am not telling anyone what to do, just describing my view, I might be wrong.

    One thing I am thinking about right now is: what is my product? I donít think I will need to give my raw files because what I am selling is a final image in my style. The processing is part of the product and it is incompletewithout it, esp print preperation. If they want the raw it would mean they prefer a different final style or look. But then that is a different product, then it is a service (capturing images). Packages should add value. E.g. processing should be worth something to the client, not just a sneaky price inflation fora quick curves tweek or to control printing revenue, but thatís just my view.We could talk more about this but might be another thread topic

    Maybe they think they are saving money by processing themselves.If he goes for it and gives raw, and he can produce a nice processed image then perhaps give them one or two files fully processed for free so they can compare their results with his and see what that money is for. They may come back later after getting Uncle Bob to do his bit and then they compare. If he is no good then donít worry about it, or get a couple outsourced, lots of options.

    On this new thing I am looking into next year I am not intending to give raws because I donít need the money (hobby business) and they are not my product (I am not just captureing images like I am not just hiring out my camera gear, thats a different business). I only am after 8-10 jobs per annum to support my model so am fine with attracting/repelling the customers for a good "fit"Ö having said that, I wouldnítrule anything out, you never know, a collaboration might be fun under some circumstances.

  9. #9

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    Good point, your product is your style and that is the end result not the raw files

    Every good wedding tog I've seen has a very identifiable look to the pics, only part of which is the shooting.
    Canon 5DmkII, 400L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 24mmf3.5 TS-E, Canon 70-200f2.8L, Tamron 90mm SP AF Di f2.8 Macro, Sigma 50mmf1.4 EX HSM, Nissin Di866 flash, Manfrotto 190xprob & Markins Q3t head, Lee filters, Lowepro Flipside 400AW, Yong Nuo rf 602 triggers.


  10. #10

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    I was reseaching my local market when I noticed this. If I just want an image there are heaps of people in my region. But if I want certain looks, then the ground started getting thinner. Sometimes it was the posing or moments or light (capture stuff), and sometimes it was post related. It was things that only that person could do because of who they are, not who they were trying to imitate. I couldnt just get one of the other photographers generic images and "process" to be like these other ones, esp if it was a capture related thing but also post stuff when it was style decision and teh person processing dosnt have that style (style is not an action, its more like personal preferences).

    If I wanted images like theirs I had to use them, their product was unique and they controlled it (not a processing secret or trick, but their style, taste and aesthetic) because it was them that had the value, not their photography. Thats a tricky thing to get your head around.

    OK, OK, getting off topic

    edit: I always am nervious about these sort of posts because it they seem to annoy some people and I dont like to do that, or tell anyone they should think like I do, these are just my thought on it, might not be the answer for you
    Last edited by Tony; 30-06-2011 at 10:51 AM.

  11. #11
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    I paid a fair amount for my wedding photos, and they were nice...however not well touched up, which would have made them heaps better (my wife fell over the week before the wedding and had small bruises all over her arm....years later I now know how easy it is to fix the with spot healing tool).
    After a year, they gave me the rolls of film...so someday I'm gonna scan the pics I want and retouch myself.

    Tony, I know you're a fan of Jasmine Star...she doesn't do the post-processing herself...it's outsourced... and I think that's really smart, frees up her time & I guess they do a better job at it than she ever could.

  12. #12

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    She is a smart lady. Not everyone is good processing at it or loves it, gotta know who you are.

    Yep totally get what your saying about your wedding shots, that is an excellent reason to have the raws or offer them as part your package. Love outsourceing models too. Lots of ways to do this and you cant argue with success. What do you do along these lines about raw files James? for myself I am not sure I would want to make a rule about it, what ever works?

    edit: I have both the JS creative live workshops, she talks about the outsourceing. I have the impression processing is not a big part of her brand (processing for her style is just clean images, not like textures or anything) Her style/branding is more about the way she shoots and the experience the clients have, I beleive. e.g. the way she arranges the shoes of the bride for a fashion look (do you include the label or not, depends on the label, do you know which is a boast and which is economy in womens shoes?) You cant buy a JS action , anyhow, this is getting waaay of topic.
    Last edited by Tony; 30-06-2011 at 04:36 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    What do you do along these lines about raw files James?
    I gave wedding RAW's away once, to a client who was a graphics designer, and had moved to a foreign country too...it's not something I'd normally offer in a wedding photography package.
    However, in my commercial shoots I've just given the RAW's straight to the graphic artist....today I gave a short tutorial on how to process RAW files

    I'll process a few of those again myself however for use in my own portfolio....just cause I gotta have complete control....hahahaha

  14. #14
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    Interesting interview of Getty photog, Matt Cardy, in the latest Digital Camera World mag. Except for landscapes, he shoots mainly JPEG:

    I mainly shoot JPEG as it's so much faster, but would shoot lanscapes in raw. As I'm using JPEG, I have to be sure I'm getting shots right in-camera.
    I guess there is less need for manipulation/tweaking for a news photog, as opposed to a wedding photographer I guess.
    Canon 5DIII | 7D | 16-35mm f2.8L II | 17-40mm f4L | 24mm f1.4L II | 50mm f1.2L | 85mm f1.2L II | 70-200mm f2.8L II | 300mm f2.8L IS II | 1.4x III | 2x III | 580EX II

  15. #15

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    It all depends on the output and use.

    And how much time/effort you put into getting it right.

    If say your shooting products for web, get the lighting and white balance right, set the picture style/sharpening, why even bother shooting raw?

    Camera jpg engines are good enough for a lot of uses so long as you know the use beforehand and know your not going to want to come back to them years later.
    Canon 5DmkII, 400L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 24mmf3.5 TS-E, Canon 70-200f2.8L, Tamron 90mm SP AF Di f2.8 Macro, Sigma 50mmf1.4 EX HSM, Nissin Di866 flash, Manfrotto 190xprob & Markins Q3t head, Lee filters, Lowepro Flipside 400AW, Yong Nuo rf 602 triggers.


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